Spill It! Podcast | A Case for Ditching Your Email List w/ Karly Nimmo

 
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Ditching your email list!? Oh the controversy! Karly and I chat all about email lists- if you need one, what they might be useful for, and how you possibly could get by without one!


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3:00 | Doing what feels good
7:30 | karly explains her thoughts on email lists
10:36 | Karly explains deleting her entire email list
14:17 | Alex explains why she is “pro-email list”
17:00 | Why everyone’s business needs are different
18:51 | Alex explains the tactical aspects of learning your audience through an email list
21:49 | Guilt about feel like you “have” to do business a certain way
34:00 | We are allowed to make decisions for ourselves as CEOs
36:26 | What to do in lieu of having and email list

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Meet Karly Nimmo

With three iTunes hit podcasts under her belt, including Karlosophies and Make Some Noise, Karly Nimmo uses her voice and wisdom to guide us back to the truth of who we are so that we can show up and speak up as our fully expressed, most rad selves.

A faithful student of the human spirit, Karly can help connect to your voice and ‘find your freq’ at karlynimmo.com and in your podcast app of choice.


Full Episode Transcription:

Alright, today on the show, I have Karly Nimmo, a serial podcaster with three hit iTunes shows under her belt, one of which is Karlosophies where she explores what she explains as to stop living a life of expectation and start living a life in brilliant Technicolor which holy cow totally speaks to my soul and I bet that it does to yours too. So all right, I feel myself getting rambling here So, hi, Carly, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. I'm excited to be here today. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, so why don't you first kind of dive into maybe a couple of your podcast or your business? Give us the whole rundown and then we'll get into the topic. Okay, so I do a lot of different things. But I'll try and keep it keep it brief. I am a voiceover artist. So that's been my primary business for the last 15 years is you know, I do I work as a voiceover artist, an agent. And we do like big a learning programs for large corporates primarily in Australia and New Zealand. And I work with, you know, 20 odd talent around the world, but may but primarily Australian and New Zealand voices. So I've been doing that for like 15 years. And in that time, I've tried a lot of other different things. I had a co working space that failed and cost me 100 grand had an online magazine. I'm a big experimental so I've tried a lot of different things over the last 41 years of my life but these days I would consider myself a speaker a podcast I've got two podcasts Carlos if he's like you mentioned and make some noise and I've got a third one in the works I love podcasting as a medium. I also am a podcast coach and mentor because of my background in radio and as a voice over artist and having had a few shows under my belt and and a good amount of success external success I guess. I yeah, I work with podcasters but I'm also have a know like life slash bs coach guide. I run retreats and workshops and events and I do a lot of different stuff. I'd like to mix it up and you know, keep it fresh, I guess. Yeah, it sounds like you've been around around the block a time or two? Yeah, yeah, I mean, experimentation is really a big part of who I am to have to try things out to see if they work for me. So, I've tried a lot, I've tried a lot of different stuff. And now I just, I, I do my best to stay in a place where I'm showing up in places that feel good for me and not really in the other places that don't, Oh, I love that philosophy. I just I wish that, that everybody could embody that because I do think that, that, you know, as business owners, especially when you create a business that is so close to your heart, you know, you you're constantly being told these things like you have to do this strategy and you need to be over here in this area doing this thing and you know, so many different people telling you all these different things that you have to do that at the end of it, sometimes you end up resenting your work, because you don't get back to that state of like actually doing what feels good. Totally 100% and I have done all the things I have done. You know, I did, I had, I had an online business manager and an assistant or a couple of assistants and we were doing like Facebook ads and webinars and sales funnels and launches and then trying evergreen and like, a lot of it just felt really crap to me. And, and so I started stripping things back and coming back to, you know, because at the end of the day, I want to look back on my life and have lived a large life not not have lived a life of expectation, you know, like I wanted, I really want to be the best most expressed version of me. And that requires us to sometimes break a few roles and sometimes try things out and then like if they're not working, walk away from them, you know, instead of like, trying to force them to happen, which was what ended up happening to me with my question Casting I had an online I still do had an online podcasting school called rad casters. And we did all of the strategy, you know, had the list building the webinars, the Yeah, the sales funnel, all that stuff. And it was it got to the point where it wasn't working. And it wasn't working in that no one was signing up. And I, I started to get increasingly stressed and increasingly desperate and the more desperate I became, you know, people can smell that desperation. And they, they stopped fighting. And so it just became this like shit spiral. And I eventually ended up by hooked up to an AC g at the doctors on a Friday afternoon thinking I was having a heart attack, because I was so stressed about cash flow had this huge team I was paying and no funds were coming in. And it was just like, oh my god, something has to change. I've got a habit like a three year old kid, and I didn't want to die. You know, like I literally thought I was going to die. So, so things started to shift Not long after there, you know, I kind of was like, sometimes where sometimes it feels like we're pushing shit up hill, you know, constantly pushing shit up hill. And I had a podcast interview with a friend of mine who is quite a successful online entrepreneur. And oh, he was now he owns a brewery. But he started a company called WP curve which GoDaddy ended up buying. And, and we have known each other for years and years and years. And he had this like, almost stratospheric success, you know, like, boom, there he was, and everyone wanted him on their podcast, and he was speaking at all the events and he was traveling the world and all that kind of jazz. And he had said, I had I was really curious to find out, like, Why him and not me, because he's no more intelligent than me. He's no more charismatic, like, What's going on here? And he was like, Well, you know, he said, I was pushing shit up hill. A lot of the time. It felt like hard work. It doesn't have to feel like hard work. The things that Work, don't feel hard. And I was like, well, that's interesting, and then went on a shit spiral just to prove it to myself. And then I said, Yeah, what a novel idea. Yeah, no. Serious. It's crazy. Yeah. And then and then it's just been like the last few years peeling back what what felt crap to me in and putting in place? what feels good. Yeah. And I think that's kind of the perfect way to segue into today's topic too. Because the topic for today's show is really one that I wanted to touch on specifically with you, Carly, because I know you have a very unique story and thought process related to this. And honestly, I think it's it's kind of one that maybe even a little more controversial for my listeners, because, as online business owners, they're constantly hearing phrases like the money is in the email list, and You need to own your subscribers and you know, blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff, right? So, I would love to maybe first hear your personal take on email lists being a business necessity. And then we can kind of dive into some conversation more so revolving around your story in that realm. Yeah. Cool. So my thoughts on email lists, I mean, and my thoughts on Business Essentials, I mean, I don't know this is gonna sound controversial and I mean, this is the thing right? Like, I have to preface this with this is not for everyone. I am not an advocate for burning down bridges. And I am an advocate for doing things in a way that feel good for you. And for me, I just felt like the email list thing just it just felt like these noose around my neck all the time. I did not enjoy showing up there. There was always this pressure that I felt around emailing and gotta sell them something you know, and make sure I got A call to action and right and all this kind of stuff. And none of that feels good for me. As soon as there's an external pressure, things just fall apart. And so for me, I was emailing, you know, and I was doing all the right stuff. I was emailing them all the time, not like all the time, but you know, at least once a week I was regular. And, but it just felt crap. And, and I got over here, I'm not one who likes to be told what to do, either. So when everyone's saying, you know, you must have an email list. I want a question that I'm going to question Do Is that true? You know, like, I guess another big thing is, you know, I'm big on experimentation. But I'm also big on curiosity. I want to know, if it's possible, is it possible to have a successful business without having an email list? So I emailed my list. This was probably over 12 months ago. Now. It was Like maybe fed last year, and I ate my my list and I said, Look, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to burn any bridges here, I'm not going to like say I'm burning down my email list and I will never be in touch with you via email again. But right now, this place feels really hard for me to show up in and and I need to honor that. So if you want to keep in touch with me, then you know, listen to my podcasts or follow me on Instagram and see around. And the like at first there was like this feeling of like, Oh my god, what did I just do? And I deleted my Active Campaign account. So it was gone. I did download a copy of whoever was currently on the list. But I had also spent a few months in the lead up waiting people out like just getting rid of people who hadn't opened an email in months, people who have never engaged with me gone, you know, so I ended up with quite a small amount of people on the list. I downloaded it I shut down my Active Campaign account and walked away. And it like I didn't miss it, you know, and I think that's the key for me was I asked myself if I never had to do this again. How would it feel? And it was like, oh angels singing you know, and I was like, that's interesting. Well maybe I don't have to show up here. And and so i didn't i like i said i walked away. And actually my business last year and in in the year since has been better than ever. I have more. I've had more people work with me I prefer now to work with people one on one. I know like, that's not really what you supposed to do. Scale scale scale, but it's it just doesn't feel right. I prefer intimate connection. I prefer to work one on one with people not just give them like he's the formula go follow it. It's like, you know, particularly when it comes to podcasting people shit comes up and a lot of it is fear. And I like to work with people at that level. So I so basically i i also shut down my my online course for a probably about 18 months and I opened it up again at the end of last year and I've had more clients than I had in the year that I was really doing all the funnels and all that stuff. So and I've my coaching practices for I feel retreats without having to send any emails you know, I focus on my focus is on providing my focus is on intimately connecting with people. And where I do that best is on my podcast and you know in my facebook group and Instagram so I just trust that that that's where I meant to be. Having said that, I have a I have set myself a little experiment where I have my email list. I'm now using Punjabi for, for my red casters course. And I have experimenting with sending one email a week with no sales stuff until the end of June, and then I'm just going to say how I feel about it. Because that's the thing, right? Like, I have this, this theory that I talk about a lot, which is the swing and the pendulum, you can call it whatever you want. But this idea that sometimes we need to like swing way away, or at least I do, I need to go from like, where I am swing way away from something in order to come back and find some equilibrium with it. And, and find my own way. So it's like, you know, follow the formula, trial, the things yuck, yuck, yuck doesn't feel good. Swing right away from that, and then come back into a place where I can make it my own. And I kind of feel like that's where I'm at at the moment. I'm not interested. In, I'm not, I'm still not interested in this building, I'm still not interested in shoving sales down people's faces. I'm not interested in playing the fear and scarcity game when it comes to sales and marketing. I just want to show up as May and trust. And that's pretty much how I'm operating now. Oh my gosh, I. So here's, first off, I have to say that, you know, I'm one of those people that I am like, full blown pro email list. So, so you know, I do have that opposing opinion. And I'll get into a little bit more into that in just a minute. But I do 100% agree with you on a couple of things that you said in there too about. One is that you don't have to have all of those fancy sales funnels and marketing tactics to have a successful business. Like even though what I help my people with is launch strategy. And so you know, building out sales funnels, and you know, having all the fancy email sequences and all that that good stuff is a large part of what I do for my audience. And for my one on one clients, you know, but at the same time, you can build relationships on other platforms and in other ways, and absolutely be able to grow a business, you know, sometimes even faster and better if that's really like your zone, you know, and like you were talking about that it's just because, you know, one person says, you know, that, oh, this didn't work for me. And then the other person is saying, no, this did work for me over here, like you have to kind of learn yourself and figure out where you fit into that and which, which of those is true for you. So I do I love that like that open minded thought process of you know, there's there are multiple ways that you can do things and no, one way is right and I met my office and They're there. I guess the janitors just came. So they're vacuuming in the background. So, I don't know if anybody can hear that. So I apologize, if you can. But, um, but yeah, I mean, and I'll get into a little bit more about, like, why I personally like email list, because I kind of like having that that conversation in this show, because I think that the whole point of like, this podcast in general is to bring light to the fact that there are so many different opposing opinions out there and that that's okay. And, and that, you know, I can absolutely talk about the reasons why I like email list and you can say why it wasn't right for you. And like, literally, my listeners can just choose which side they stand on, and that's fine and I don't care. Totally, because the thing the whole point is that it's whatever is working for you. So if you know for me, I i have i've just tried so many different things and I'm very good. connected to my intuition on things, you know, and I and I'm really big on honoring what feels good for me. So that, like, there are things in business that feel good for me. And there are things that don't. And so, I, you know, I just don't i don't there's, yeah, I just don't want to do things that feel out of alignment for me, right? That's the key, right? Like, I'm connected to my values. And I want to stay in the place where I'm honoring myself and them. And for me, it's like, the, the, the strategy and the sales funnel stuff doesn't feel good for me. So I I choose a different approach. And that's okay. It's a strategy in itself, really. It's just a different one. Right? So and, and I can also say, like, when I was doing the sales funnels, and I had the help doing it, like, that was awesome, too. It's just that it stopped working because there was something energetically going on within me. And you know, like, I a conflict between who I who I wanted to be and who I was being I wasn't being authentic in my marketing, I was thinking I was being who I thought I needed to be, I thought I needed to be the podcast teacher who, you know, plotted around in your fear. And, and, and I don't have to be that person and I don't want to be that person. So I'm not going to, and, and I also recognize that it works. It works. It works for a lot of people to approach marketing that way. Well, that's cool. If it's working, why bother fixing it? Like it's not broken, you know, but it was broken for me. So it required fixing for me from a personal, you know, very unique perspective. Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. And, and, you know, I think a lot of the reasons why I like email list is from that like, the tactical aspect, you know, things like You can there's a lot to learn about your audience that can be learned through your email list like audience behaviors you know what they click on versus what they don't click on an email can be super telling first you know also things like what they're opting into you know, and then sending out emails specifically to segments of your list just because they opted in for a certain thing you know, there's a lot of like it customer psychology that you can kind of tap into based off of their audience or based off of their behaviors on your your email list, which I think is really you know, fun and exciting as a launch strategist, you know, yeah. And and you know, there's there's other things like it's a direct way to contact your people, you know, they have to consent to get your email, at least post GDPR stuff. And you know, as a sender, you choose who it gets delivered to. So there is that like, direct thing. It's not just shouting out into the void of social media and hoping that the message hits the right people and automate Of course is amazing and like all of these things, but again, these are all those like, more so tactical, like tactical strategies I mean that because like you said, you know, the way that you work your audience in a different way is absolutely strategy driven to, but just with a different medium and a different a different way of going about it. As a service based business owner you love your clients in the work you do for them, but the admin tasks like onboarding, invoicing and sending contracts, that's what's overwhelming and tedious. But with honey book, you can automate the client relationship process. Say goodbye to manually following up with leads asking for payments and keeping tabs on project progress. Honey book does it all and on autopilot so you can focus more on the work you want to do and less on the work you think you have to do. Since switching to honey book myself. I have seen a full 33% increase in lead conversion, and I've gotten so much time back in my schedule. So now I use that time to focus on working on my clients instead of drowning and paperwork and bookkeeping tasks. Oh, that's right. Honey book also integrates with services like QuickBooks, Google sweet and MailChimp to make your business life streamlined and worry free. And for the juicy cherry on top. Right now honey book is offering my listeners 50% off their first year on the monthly and the yearly payment plans. All you have to do is head on over to Lady and company.com slash honey book to snag that offer today. Yeah, and I have to say for years, I have guilt myself. You know, and I have I've actually been shamed by people in the online space for you know, sabotaging myself, why do you have to be in integrity all the time? Uh, you know, like, why like this operating from trust thing, what a load of bullshit, like, just go to the data. And it's like, that's, that's just not that's just not me. It's just not me. And, and I like yeah, I want to be me so I'm just gonna be me. But it took a lot for me to go, you know, because there there is a lot of pressure on us. It's kind of like, this is totally unrelated, but it's like being a mom and being, you know, like the pressure to breastfeed. It's almost like that, but like, in an entrepreneurial sense, you know, like, Oh my god, I don't have an email list. What's your bottle feeding? You know? It's Yeah. How dumb is that? So stupid. Yeah. And it's so funny that you bring it up in that way is that so not any way that I've ever heard anybody else. Explain. It, but you're so right, it is. So the same way because there is a right way for every single person. And if we really break it down, like there are so many different ways that you can work it, there are these like, like you said, those data driven, you know, elements, that if that's the way that your brain works, then absolutely go down that route because that's what works for you. But then other people like they absolutely have to feel in alignment and, you know, work off of their creativity and feel really inspired. And you know, all these different things have to kind of line up for them so that they actually can produce the quality work that they know that they're capable, capable of. And neither way is wrong. And sometimes there's a way to blend it too if you kind of fall somewhere in the middle, which is where I think I kind of land as well. But But yeah, I mean that there is no reason that we as business owners need to tell anyone that there is this one way to do Something and that any other way is wrong, because that just puts us up on our high horse. And it makes us look real bad at the end of the day, and it sets us up for huge falls, you know? And, like, it really does, which is why, you know, when I when I decided to leave the email marketing thing behind, I didn't burn that bridge. I wasn't like, you know, I know I didn't like blows light up a piece of dynamite and throw it in the middle and just like let it blow to pieces. It was just that I needed to, I know myself well enough to know that when I get in that space, I need to give myself permission to walk completely away in order to make a decision in clarity, not pressure, you know. And the other. The other piece for me is I you know, I'm not one of those people who likes to plan. I'm not a planner. I like to run my business in alignment with my feelings which sounds totally ridiculous to a lot of people, but I do right I wait until I feel called to have a retreat and then I announce it. I wait until, you know, an idea lands and then I go about creating it. And, and there's no like, Okay, so this quarter I'm doing this next quarter I'm doing this, you know, and this is my long term plan and this is my big vision and all that kind of jazz. I'm literally just living moment to moment in in ways that feel really good to me. Because when I've locked myself into things before, I feel a sense of claustrophobia, and I hate that feeling. So I can do business in ways like I get to choose whether I lock myself into something because some people need to lock themselves into something in order to show up for it. When I locked myself into it. I feel resentment and bitterness. And you know, it just feels really shit for me. So instead I prefer to to run business on the fly. In fact, I prefer to live life on the fly, which isn't for everyone, but it's for me. So you know, and it's taken a lot to get to the point where I'm, I won't apologize for that. Because I've apologized a lot for for being this like, you know, I don't know, we need out there person will fuck that it's just who I am and and now I see myself as a magnet and I'm going to attract the people who are attracted to it and I'm going to repel the others you know and not in a like not in an aggressive confrontational kind of repelling, they're just not going to come into my sphere because I'm not for them a copy for everyone. I don't want to know you can't be and that's kind of the whole fucking point to like when you have a business you cannot serve everyone and you are not going to be for everyone. And that's okay because that's going to make your life as a business owner so much easier and so much more enjoyable because you're not going to attract those people. people that aren't for you that don't agree with you that don't, you know, fall in line with your business values and whatever else which, you know, again, the whole the whole point. Yeah, and I wish I was a planner, I wish I was a planner I wish I, I wish I was someone who could, you know, like a note and I was gonna say stick to things I do stick to things I stick very much to my values, even though they can change over the years. I'm very much you know, I bind myself to those things, but I do I do not enjoy binding myself to other things. And, and, and it would be nice, it would be nice to be a person who sometimes it would be easier to be a person who was open to strategy and in that you know, in that more left brain way. You know, it would be nice to have that but but for me that my brain works in the way That when it comes to strategy, I actually am really great at systems and procedures. I'm great at creating things behind the scenes in order for me to show up just moment to moment. So there's it's like there is structure there. It's just in a different way to a lot of other people other people have like, you know the plan and then it's all just chaos underneath it's like that the duck with like swimming with their legs like going madly underwater, because the whole but you know, there's no no real solid foundations there's a plan but there's there's nothing really holding that plan up. And I'm the opposite. Like, I have really solid foundations, so I can be wild and free everywhere else. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Um, so I have to ask, how many people did you have on your list when you like quit Active Campaign? it actually wasn't huge. So I think at the end, there was probably a couple of thousand people on there. And yeah, crazy because I'm sure that there are some people In my, they're listening to this right now that are totally like when they kill for a couple thousand people on their email. Yes. Right. And so it's up to them. It's like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe. I mean, you said that you downloaded that. So you still have it. Yeah. Well actually once I clicked it once I cleared, because I really got pretty, pretty, pretty big on the clear out. And now it's under 500. Wow. But I bet those 500 people are your people. Yeah. And when I came back, like it was actually really lovely because I actually sent my first email to them last Friday, and I just said, Hey, guys, I'm just feeling the coal to come back and give this ago. So until the end of June, I will just email you every Friday with just a theme for what's been happening for me in the week. And that felt really good for me and an opportunity just to let them know what's on the podcast. So, so the first email that I sent out, I got a really great response from people Never like, Oh my God, I've missed you so much. I've missed here having you in my inbox. I've missed this direct connection that we have here, which I don't, you know, they don't necessarily feel that they have, like, you know, they can just hit reply. I mean, they can do that to my Instagram stories on that, but, you know, like, Yeah, but it feels to some of them that maybe aren't so Insta friendly. It feels like there is a direct line to me, which feels good, actually. When I haven't got all the other stuff involved, you know, and, and just a short, like it. I haven't said to them, I'm going to be coming back. And I'm going to be, you know, because there's nothing worse. And I say this all the time in the podcast world, there is nothing worse and nothing that erodes trust quicker than if you disappear and come back and say, Hey, I'm back. Sorry, guys. I've got too much. And now I'm going to come back and you're going to hear from me every Tuesday. And to Tuesday's later. Yeah, gone, you know? So for me, yeah. And I don't want to like be like, okay, so I'm going to email you every Friday until I die. You know, because it's like, yeah, that's not realistic. And it just puts, it puts that I feel pressure on that. So when I when I thought, okay, I'll test this out and see what happens. I thought, well, what feels good? Well, if I only had to do it until the end of June, and then I could reassess what's happening, then that would feel good for me. And so I just communicated that with people because we can disappear. You know, we get to set the expectation. So, you know, there's this big thing in the online world about consistency. You know, we need to be consistent all the time. And people see that if they're like me as like some kind of life sentence that forevermore, they're like low. It's like Chicago. You know, they're like bound to this weekly showing up, and it's confronting, but consistency gets to be whatever we want it to be. And as long as we're open and honest in our communication about it, I don't see any problem with just saying, Hey, I'm just going to show up irregularly, you know, instead of like promising something that feels really hard for you to deliver on, that feels like a duty, a responsibility. If those if those kind of things are not motivating for you, then you know, there are alternatives in the way that we can show up that don't feel like a noose. Right. And I think to, you know, when we put those pressures on ourselves to show up in those ways, so consistently, right, like you said, like, every Tuesday, I'm going to release a podcast episode, or every Tuesday, I'm going to email my list or whatever. It's, here's, here's the thing that I think we sometimes forget, like, we have all of these different mediums of content, you know, social media, blog posts, you know, whatever. And we treat each Those like it is on national TV. Like, you know, we're not like Game of Thrones. We're not supposed to show up every single Sunday and people are gonna like literally be so mad if we don't drop an episode on a Sunday. Yeah. Like, nobody is actually going to sit there and like, send you hate mail because you didn't show up on that certain day, you know, every single week, like you said that you were going to or like, you felt like you needed to, like people actually don't care that much. They just want you to show up consistently for them in some way. And, you know, for instance, like on social media, I after after Christmas, I was like, so super burnt out. And I had nothing to say. And so I didn't post on on social media for almost three weeks. I lost zero subscribers. Like, like nobody, nobody left. And it's because they're not sitting there wondering why the heck I'm not there. Because they have a whole other, you know, load of people that they're looking for. They're getting emails from other people. They're getting social media posts from other people. And sometimes we just have to take a break, because that's what we need. And we're allowed to do that, because we're the CEOs of our business, and we can actually make those calls and it's fine. We don't have to put that much pressure on ourselves. Yeah. And I think you I think, I think that where it becomes an issue is where, where it's a pattern, you know, where where you are just ghosting all the time. Or your or your, you're saying one thing, and then not delivering on that. Yeah. So when you promise that you're going to be there every week, then you need to show up every week. You know, and if you don't, then communicating why not is a good idea, because it can it can erode trust, it can have our trust for you to to be all hell for leather. I'm back then disappear. And if it's a pattern, then it's something that needs looking at. And it doesn't mean that it just means that maybe you need to shift things around in a way that works for you. Because what's the point of doing business for ourselves? If it doesn't work for us, right? Yeah, I still agree. And something that I find amazing is that you, you said it was about a year ago, right that you decided to not email anymore. Yeah, yeah. And so it's been 12 months, and you just sent out one of your first email since then. And you actually had people that were like, Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited that I got this in my inbox. And you gave them a full year break from that. It was actually it's actually 15 months. I said, I think what are we in now may? Yeah, so it was February. So 15 months, they hadn't heard from me via email, but a lot of them are connected to me, in you know, in in the other spaces in They're still listening to my podcast, and all that kind of jazz, but just, you know, yeah, like you can take a break. Even my Facebook page is so sporadic, there's no like, I might not show up there for three weeks, and then I'll show up, and my people is still there. If the if the content is engaging enough, it doesn't matter how much you show up, you know, the people are going to engage with it, you still going to get the rage because you're engaging. For sure. I think that's amazing. And, and something that I want to touch on as we kind of close up this episode is maybe some tips that you have for maybe not even just tip. So maybe just your personal experience of what you did in lieu of having an email list, like how were you able to grow your business? Even more so without having an email list? were you using social media? I mean, I know you have the podcast, obviously. But like, what, what were those mediums that you used? Well, I didn't really replace it with anything. But I do have I'm a small a very small but very engaged Facebook group. And so whenever I'm whenever, you know, I'm launching something or I'm announcing that I've got spots available or I'm running a retreat, I just put I put a post in that group and they sell out because the people are really really engaged. Mostly because they Yeah, and I, it really is. See this is another thing that I want to point out right like 2000 so I had at least with a couple of thousand people on it, it was probably higher than that at some point. But you know, there were a couple of thousand people on it. I could send out emails have you know, a funnel for like sales for my goals, and have it all really neatly crafted, well written, you know, with doing all the right things and not make a sale. Yet, I can put a post on my Instagram sorry, in my facebook group, saying I'm thinking about having a retreat and it sells out So there's there's two things there. One, one of the things that I was selling wasn't really working for me and energetically wasn't really in alignment with, with where I'm going and who I am. I was doing things, you know, the emails weren't really me either. They were just kind of what I felt I needed to do to get the sale. And there was no real level of connection with the people, you know, other than I was really just based on assumptions. And now like, I don't even say what the retreats are about. I don't I don't there's no like, Hey, guys, you know, I'm running this retreat on whatever. Like, there's no theme. It's just like, Hey, guys, thinking about running a retreat in Byron in April who's interested? Yep, yep, yep. Yep. Yep. Cool. Well, I'll go book the accommodation. Here's a link to pay. That's it. Yeah, you had an excellent job at building those those relationships with your people then. Yeah, and you know how I do that is like through the podcast. Really, and through being really honest and transparent about who I am and where I'm at. These people know me. And if they're coming to Byron, they email me Hey, I'm in Byron, and I'm like, Cool, let's hang out. And so I hang out with them, so that they're like, you know, I'm really accessible, really accessible to people. So I don't need to be. I don't need to be shoving my message down their throat. I don't need to be. You know, I don't need to be convincing them of anything. Because they know me. They trust me, because I'm consistent. And I show up and I'm honest, and I'm open. And I me, I may, that is the key, right? Like, I am me in all of my interactions. The person that speaking on this podcast is the person who is a wife who is a mother, who is you know, I'm just me wherever I am. So there's no there's no like, there's no pretenses, there's no pretending it's just me and then people feel that. So Trust me, I so love that. And guys, as you're listening to this, I always, always, always say that your business is your brand and your brand is you if you don't show up as yourself, nothing else is going to work. And I think that Carly, you're such a testament to that. I think that that was literally gave me chills. I loved everything that you just said. And I have to say like, that's a lot of work to right. So, so there's, there's a couple of keys there. One is you don't need a lot of people. You don't need a lot of people to have a successful business. You just need to have some people who love the shit out of you. Yeah, you know, like I'm for I'm for smaller numbers, greater engagement, then I'm not interested in scaling. I'm not interested in taking over the world. I love my life as it is. I just want to do more of what I do. And the rest is a bonus for me. My gosh, I love this. This was such a good episode. Thank you so much, Carly. My pleasure. So okay, before we like officially sign off, why don't you kind of give my people some some places where they can come find you because I have a feeling they're going to want to cool. Alright, so well you're already listening to a podcast so let's start there. If you Yeah, if you search for Carla Sophie's, it's with a K, then that you'll get me I'm usually just out and about recording what's going on for me sharing some, like, you know, what I'm struggling with or what I've moved through this week, and I record that on the beach. So it's like kind of a different it's almost like an audio blog, kind of but it will give you you know, it's thought provoking. That's really what it's about. And then I have another podcast called Make some noise which is about self expression and creativity and its impact on your mental well being and your mental state. And then my websites Colleen mimo.com. And I'm On Instagram at colossal fees, and you can find me other places, but that's the main ones. Perfect. Oh, alright. Well, thank you again so much. And I have a feeling I'm probably gonna have you back on here at some point. This Wait, I would love that so much fun. Oh my gosh. I love, love love Carly. And that episode was so much fun to record. But before I let you guys go, I did want to mention that today the day that this episode officially dropped. So June 25 2019. It's the last day for you guys to enter the giveaway for the $100 amazon gift card. So if you're watching this in the future, so sorry, but if you're watching this, or watching, listening, you know whatever. If you're listening to this on the day that it drops, then go ahead and leave a review here in iTunes, Apple podcast, whatever you want to call it, and you will automatically be entered in to win that $100 amazon gift card And then tomorrow, the 26th of June 2019. I will be announcing the giveaway winner on my Instagram story. So make sure that you're following me there. It's just at Lady and co creative on Instagram and we'll see if you win. So leave that review, you'll be entered to win that $100 amazon gift card. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Spirit podcast. Here's what I'd love for you to do next, take a quick screenshot of this episode that you're listening to right now and share it on your Instagram stories so your friends can hear about the show too. And then I'd love you for real for real if you head on over to iTunes to leave a rating and review and if you want access to the show notes, links and downloadable that were mentioned in this episode, head to spill it podcast calm and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a future episode.

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Spill It! with Alex Lawless is a roundtable-style podcast that brings a unique spin to online business strategy by creating a space for seasoned entrepreneurs to hold judgment-free and opinion-based conversations on industry topics, norms, and cliches. View more episodes….

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